What are some good nootropic or nootropic stack for my Chronic Fatigue Syndrome?
Kim
I have the same problems. Read that Alpha GPC can help with memory issues & brain fog. I just started taking it a few days ago. Too soon to tell any results.
Kratom helps a lot with my fatigue. Small doses of a white vein or white/gold blend seem to work best for energy.
Kaustav
Try your docs/friends suggestion first, find some Indian pharma modafinil and try it, if it works then get some crl40940 and try the same dose and see if works the same in which case it'll become a cheaper option for you.
If modafinil doesn't work then talk to your doctor again. He may escalate to something based on amphetamine.
If your symptoms are serious enough that you seeked medical aid I don't think supplements like creatine or dribose will do anything. What novice research paper readers forget to understand is the effect size.
Also if modafinil doesn't work your doc may also want to run some blood work, or ask him to do so, perhaps your problem is hormonal, thyroid problems or menopause/sex hormone problems. And remember none of us are qualified to give you medical advice either in this group or any others. Your pharmacist friend is more trustworthy, and doesn't have an agenda like trying to be the smartest commenter or something.
Tahi
I am kind of similar, struggling with delayed gratification is part of adhd. Tweaking brain chemistry might get you more mileage but at the end of the day is your cognitive habits and world outlook that you have to do the hard work of shaping. Anything big you want to do in life such as starting your own small business will entail lots of little bits of busy work too... I think when we dont have a clear picture of how our plans might unfold it gets daunting and we reach for the easier tasks like doing the dishes because we get anxious and avoid the uncertainty of something longer term. I find doing different timelines i.e. Monthly, weekly, daily helps. And never take any stims or nootropics without a plan for what you want to use that extra brain power for. Give urself a reward for sticking to the plan. As for chronic fatigue there seems to be alot of people successfully treating that through diet and minnerals over at the magnesium advocacy group.
Theo
I second L-Tyrosine. It helps me quite a bit. Also look into nootropics, not necessarily the racetams, but the amino acids, vitamins and minerals.
Aaron
I've a similar problem. Some say adhd, some say anxiety, some say avoidant personality disorder, some say lazy. Perhaps you are not motivated by money. If I take modafinil I will do the quick and easy things first, but once you start something seemingly less rewarding then it becomes easier. I believe that repetition is an important factor since we strengthen our own patterns and it's harder to change them, but as with avoidant personality disorder and related labels, forcing yourself to do something won't work because you can resist and internally argue to justify avoiding it, it's even been described as a person putting in more and more effort to avoid putting in effort for the specified task. And you can't beat yourself in a debate. So the apparent trick isn't to force yourself it's to work with yourself and convince yourself that you want to do it.
There's also a theory which I think is called a low education diet, high learning which nootropics are great for isn't associated with high productivity and learning less may allow you to be more productive. Personally the only thing I find truly motivating to do the things I struggle to do, is to do things you don't want to do, for example I made the most money self employed when I had another job or was in full time education, this way it's more of an escape than a chore. It also reinforces the pattern of productivity. Similar to how many such as Einstein take menial jobs.
Also what's worth a notable mention is perfectionism, perfectionists have been found to be less productive, often avoiding an entire task because it cannot be made perfect or because of fear that it won't be perfect, or due to the feeling that you need to know more before you can continue, but never knowing enough. It's also similar to a fear of success and a fear of failure. There are lots of labels with lots of crossover in the descriptions.
Jonas
CRL-40,940 (also known as flmodafinil, bisfluoromodafinil and lauflumide) is a selective dopaminergic reuptake inhibitor, and is the bisfluoro analog of the wakefulness-promoting agent (or eugeroic) modafinil and has been sold online as a designer drug." now he recommends research chemicals, that are used in bath salts
Zac
had struggled for 13 years with depression and after every possible anti depressant and 3 courses of electroconvulsant therapy I convinced my dr to prescribe Modafinil. It took a year of fighting with my health insurance to cover it but it has helped a lot. If you can get prescribed for off label use you can legally order it online from India or wherever. If you look online you can find reputable sources.
Steven
As for the long-term safety of amphetamines, the jury is out. Unfortunately it's not very easy at all to measure neurological changes in human beings—mostly because you can't experiment on them and then cut their brains up to see what happened—and most of what we know about the toxicity of drugs in humans is the result of extreme adverse reactions or animal models. Amphetamine is acutely neurotoxic for many animals, including some other primates, for example, but is not known to be so for humans. Does dopamine receptor downregulation occur with chronic use? Almost inevitably. But the question is to what degree, and how reversible it is. Might it contribute to the hastening of the death of dopaminergic neurons? Nobody knows for sure. A year or two ago I did a thorough examination of the literature and found several meta-analyses that failed to make any specific conclusions about the long-term effects of clinical amphetamine usage.
What is known for certain are anecdotal reports of problems. Go to ADD forums, various drug forums, etc., and you'll find plenty of people who took Adderall for many years and claim they are not the same anymore and that there's no going back—fatigue, brain fog, and a host of other maladies, even after long periods of abstinence. Of course, everyone is different and it seems like some people tolerate amphetamines for years or decades just fine.
Personally I love the stuff for occasional recreational use but would never, ever risk taking it on a regular basis for any considerable period of time.
Modafinil it seems is much less neurologically stressful than amphetamine. If you insist on taking stimulants every day, then modafinil is surely the safer bet. No matter what you take, it's *vitally important* to take drug holidays of at least a week or more, lest your tolerance continue to grow steadily over the course of months or even years.
Katie
I have a lot of issues with CFSand never found relief with SSRIs. I tried modafinal and it kinda helped, but wasn't sustainable. For me SNRIs and SDRIs have done a much better job of fighting the fatigue. If you want to go the supplement route, look for ones that help your body produce Dopamine and Norepinephrine, as it seems Serotonin isn't an issue with you. If they don't help, talk to your doctor about prescription drugs that work on other nuerotransmitters besides Serotonin.
Chris
If chronic fatigue syndrome is the problem I'd start with eliminating nutritional deficencies as a cause (iron, vit d, b vitamins, etc).
Once you are sure it's not dietary, I'd add adaptogens on top of that, such as ashwaghanda, curcumin (with piperine and fats), lingzhi (red rieshi), similar.
If that still hasn't done it, then *on top of that* the more stimulatory nootropics like oxiracetam, phenylpiracetam, adrafinil (the legal version of modafinil, slightly less healthy for you but shorter duration so it's possible to sleep), semax, prl-8-53, etc.
As always, take it slow and gradual, be mindful of how substances are impacting you, be careful, and things will improve greatly.
Birgit
Test the Vitamin D 3. I have had chronic fatique take now since 4 weeks 20.000 Ie per day plus Vit K 2 and Magnesium 500 mg all away im so fit now The best whatever i find is this combination. But the first week i have had a lot of pain in my bones its a reperationpain after one week i feel sooo good. Before i rake every Day 1000 but its definitifly to less if the Test is dwon you need to fill up wirh high dois and without Vit K and Magnesium its not possible to work.
kkm
I've tried all the anti-inflammatories (krill oil, turmeric, flaxseed oil, etc) plus vitamin D, selenium, magnesium, iodine, sulphur (which one doctor swears is the "cause" of fibro when deficient), glucosamine. And even some of the snake oil stuff like Limu. Honestly have seen zero difference. Oddly I got the best relief ever from a diet pill (adipex) that I can't get prescribed because I'm not overweight. This is one strange disease.
Josh
If your chronic fatigue syndrome is possibly related to an adrenal issue, you should NOT be consuming any caffeine. You should see a doctor to determine the source of your fatigue before self-medicating. Caffeine is still caffeine to the body, even when mixed with theanine.
AJ
Phenylpiracetam is stimulating but doesn't help with wakefulness like eugeroics and purine stimulants like caffeine. While it might work, it may only work short term. Caffeine develops tolerance quite fast and tolerance in the form of more melatonin receptors could make you even more tired. Although theanine isn't known to be sedating I could barely stay awake when taking it, even with caffeine. If you really have chronic fatigue syndrome I don't see a good reason not to try eugeroics.which specifically reduce lethargy and cognitive fatigue.
Jesse
Personal research which involves trial and error is a big part of it unfortunately. What works for some may not work for others.
For pain, akuamma seeds may work wonders. I don't have chronic pain so I can't say for myself.
Kratom helped a lot with mood but is unfortunately getting regulated... I may suggest Shilajit but I have yet to try the batch I ordered yet. Hopefully it is waiting for me at home today. If not, definitely Monday.
At this point I myself am trying to find a mildly stimulating nootropic that won't make me manic and also helps with mood boost... Rhodiola Rosea has kind of worked for me but I have to dose lower than typical cause of my illness. It still gives me a slightly tingling uncomfortable manic sensation so I might stop using it.
Nikos
I deal with it with Coffee, theobromine, and CRL-40940. The problem being is every time I taper my prednisone dose I feel worse and worse, and those things are less and less helpful. While I can still function semi normally, I'm nearing the point in my taper where those stims essentially become useless. So basically I just need a little boost. And we don't drink starbucks in my state. It's not considered socially acceptable. And the ones who do are castigated.
David
Try an anti-inflammatory diet and take medium-high doses of a shotgun approach/several of the most powerful anti-inflammatory supplements you can buy from a reputable supplier in bulk. Do this daily. And fish oil. Give yourself 60 or 90 days on this regimen and see where you're at. Tweak as needed/as you decide what to drop/add to your supplement list.
Shawn
I haven't been diagnosed with CFS, but I do have underactive adrenal glands (low cortisol levels all day). I started with 0.5mg of LDN bad worked my way up to about 1.1g per night. It has pretty much cured my fatigue and IBS, but has made my anxiety and sleep worse
Caleb
Agmatine, memantine, magnesium glycinate, taurine, pikamilon, and if you want to replace or cut back your dose of addy then selegiline and/or moclobemide are maoi's which slow the breakdown of the neurotransmitters that addy releases. You'd have to cut back dose 10x and titrate from there, though or else it could cause a serious interaction that we would certainly not want anyone to experience
Tom
I have fibromyalgia and CFS, I take L-Theanine, bacopa, mucuna pruriens, ashwagandha, rhodiola rosea, picamilon and occasionally phenibut. Theanine, picamilon and phenibut work on the gaba receptors, mucuna works on dopamine levels, ashwagandha helps your body cope with stress a bit better. Bacopa helps me sleep and rhodiola rosea helps energy levels. I take no medications for my fibro, just these and rarely I'llsmoke a joint.
I have the same problems. Read that Alpha GPC can help with memory issues & brain fog. I just started taking it a few days ago. Too soon to tell any results.
Kratom helps a lot with my fatigue. Small doses of a white vein or white/gold blend seem to work best for energy.
Try your docs/friends suggestion first, find some Indian pharma modafinil and try it, if it works then get some crl40940 and try the same dose and see if works the same in which case it'll become a cheaper option for you.
If modafinil doesn't work then talk to your doctor again. He may escalate to something based on amphetamine.
If your symptoms are serious enough that you seeked medical aid I don't think supplements like creatine or dribose will do anything. What novice research paper readers forget to understand is the effect size.
Also if modafinil doesn't work your doc may also want to run some blood work, or ask him to do so, perhaps your problem is hormonal, thyroid problems or menopause/sex hormone problems. And remember none of us are qualified to give you medical advice either in this group or any others. Your pharmacist friend is more trustworthy, and doesn't have an agenda like trying to be the smartest commenter or something.
I am kind of similar, struggling with delayed gratification is part of adhd. Tweaking brain chemistry might get you more mileage but at the end of the day is your cognitive habits and world outlook that you have to do the hard work of shaping. Anything big you want to do in life such as starting your own small business will entail lots of little bits of busy work too... I think when we dont have a clear picture of how our plans might unfold it gets daunting and we reach for the easier tasks like doing the dishes because we get anxious and avoid the uncertainty of something longer term. I find doing different timelines i.e. Monthly, weekly, daily helps. And never take any stims or nootropics without a plan for what you want to use that extra brain power for. Give urself a reward for sticking to the plan. As for chronic fatigue there seems to be alot of people successfully treating that through diet and minnerals over at the magnesium advocacy group.
I second L-Tyrosine. It helps me quite a bit. Also look into nootropics, not necessarily the racetams, but the amino acids, vitamins and minerals.
I've a similar problem. Some say adhd, some say anxiety, some say avoidant personality disorder, some say lazy. Perhaps you are not motivated by money. If I take modafinil I will do the quick and easy things first, but once you start something seemingly less rewarding then it becomes easier. I believe that repetition is an important factor since we strengthen our own patterns and it's harder to change them, but as with avoidant personality disorder and related labels, forcing yourself to do something won't work because you can resist and internally argue to justify avoiding it, it's even been described as a person putting in more and more effort to avoid putting in effort for the specified task. And you can't beat yourself in a debate. So the apparent trick isn't to force yourself it's to work with yourself and convince yourself that you want to do it.
There's also a theory which I think is called a low education diet, high learning which nootropics are great for isn't associated with high productivity and learning less may allow you to be more productive. Personally the only thing I find truly motivating to do the things I struggle to do, is to do things you don't want to do, for example I made the most money self employed when I had another job or was in full time education, this way it's more of an escape than a chore. It also reinforces the pattern of productivity. Similar to how many such as Einstein take menial jobs.
Also what's worth a notable mention is perfectionism, perfectionists have been found to be less productive, often avoiding an entire task because it cannot be made perfect or because of fear that it won't be perfect, or due to the feeling that you need to know more before you can continue, but never knowing enough. It's also similar to a fear of success and a fear of failure. There are lots of labels with lots of crossover in the descriptions.
CRL-40,940 (also known as flmodafinil, bisfluoromodafinil and lauflumide) is a selective dopaminergic reuptake inhibitor, and is the bisfluoro analog of the wakefulness-promoting agent (or eugeroic) modafinil and has been sold online as a designer drug." now he recommends research chemicals, that are used in bath salts
had struggled for 13 years with depression and after every possible anti depressant and 3 courses of electroconvulsant therapy I convinced my dr to prescribe Modafinil. It took a year of fighting with my health insurance to cover it but it has helped a lot. If you can get prescribed for off label use you can legally order it online from India or wherever. If you look online you can find reputable sources.
As for the long-term safety of amphetamines, the jury is out. Unfortunately it's not very easy at all to measure neurological changes in human beings—mostly because you can't experiment on them and then cut their brains up to see what happened—and most of what we know about the toxicity of drugs in humans is the result of extreme adverse reactions or animal models. Amphetamine is acutely neurotoxic for many animals, including some other primates, for example, but is not known to be so for humans. Does dopamine receptor downregulation occur with chronic use? Almost inevitably. But the question is to what degree, and how reversible it is. Might it contribute to the hastening of the death of dopaminergic neurons? Nobody knows for sure. A year or two ago I did a thorough examination of the literature and found several meta-analyses that failed to make any specific conclusions about the long-term effects of clinical amphetamine usage.
What is known for certain are anecdotal reports of problems. Go to ADD forums, various drug forums, etc., and you'll find plenty of people who took Adderall for many years and claim they are not the same anymore and that there's no going back—fatigue, brain fog, and a host of other maladies, even after long periods of abstinence. Of course, everyone is different and it seems like some people tolerate amphetamines for years or decades just fine.
Personally I love the stuff for occasional recreational use but would never, ever risk taking it on a regular basis for any considerable period of time.
Modafinil it seems is much less neurologically stressful than amphetamine. If you insist on taking stimulants every day, then modafinil is surely the safer bet. No matter what you take, it's *vitally important* to take drug holidays of at least a week or more, lest your tolerance continue to grow steadily over the course of months or even years.
I have a lot of issues with CFSand never found relief with SSRIs. I tried modafinal and it kinda helped, but wasn't sustainable. For me SNRIs and SDRIs have done a much better job of fighting the fatigue. If you want to go the supplement route, look for ones that help your body produce Dopamine and Norepinephrine, as it seems Serotonin isn't an issue with you. If they don't help, talk to your doctor about prescription drugs that work on other nuerotransmitters besides Serotonin.
If chronic fatigue syndrome is the problem I'd start with eliminating nutritional deficencies as a cause (iron, vit d, b vitamins, etc).
Once you are sure it's not dietary, I'd add adaptogens on top of that, such as ashwaghanda, curcumin (with piperine and fats), lingzhi (red rieshi), similar.
If that still hasn't done it, then *on top of that* the more stimulatory nootropics like oxiracetam, phenylpiracetam, adrafinil (the legal version of modafinil, slightly less healthy for you but shorter duration so it's possible to sleep), semax, prl-8-53, etc.
As always, take it slow and gradual, be mindful of how substances are impacting you, be careful, and things will improve greatly.
Test the Vitamin D 3. I have had chronic fatique take now since 4 weeks 20.000 Ie per day plus Vit K 2 and Magnesium 500 mg all away im so fit now The best whatever i find is this combination. But the first week i have had a lot of pain in my bones its a reperationpain after one week i feel sooo good. Before i rake every Day 1000 but its definitifly to less if the Test is dwon you need to fill up wirh high dois and without Vit K and Magnesium its not possible to work.
I've tried all the anti-inflammatories (krill oil, turmeric, flaxseed oil, etc) plus vitamin D, selenium, magnesium, iodine, sulphur (which one doctor swears is the "cause" of fibro when deficient), glucosamine. And even some of the snake oil stuff like Limu. Honestly have seen zero difference. Oddly I got the best relief ever from a diet pill (adipex) that I can't get prescribed because I'm not overweight. This is one strange disease.
If your chronic fatigue syndrome is possibly related to an adrenal issue, you should NOT be consuming any caffeine. You should see a doctor to determine the source of your fatigue before self-medicating. Caffeine is still caffeine to the body, even when mixed with theanine.
Phenylpiracetam is stimulating but doesn't help with wakefulness like eugeroics and purine stimulants like caffeine. While it might work, it may only work short term. Caffeine develops tolerance quite fast and tolerance in the form of more melatonin receptors could make you even more tired. Although theanine isn't known to be sedating I could barely stay awake when taking it, even with caffeine. If you really have chronic fatigue syndrome I don't see a good reason not to try eugeroics.which specifically reduce lethargy and cognitive fatigue.
Personal research which involves trial and error is a big part of it unfortunately. What works for some may not work for others.
For pain, akuamma seeds may work wonders. I don't have chronic pain so I can't say for myself.
Kratom helped a lot with mood but is unfortunately getting regulated... I may suggest Shilajit but I have yet to try the batch I ordered yet. Hopefully it is waiting for me at home today. If not, definitely Monday.
At this point I myself am trying to find a mildly stimulating nootropic that won't make me manic and also helps with mood boost... Rhodiola Rosea has kind of worked for me but I have to dose lower than typical cause of my illness. It still gives me a slightly tingling uncomfortable manic sensation so I might stop using it.
I deal with it with Coffee, theobromine, and CRL-40940. The problem being is every time I taper my prednisone dose I feel worse and worse, and those things are less and less helpful. While I can still function semi normally, I'm nearing the point in my taper where those stims essentially become useless. So basically I just need a little boost. And we don't drink starbucks in my state. It's not considered socially acceptable. And the ones who do are castigated.
Try an anti-inflammatory diet and take medium-high doses of a shotgun approach/several of the most powerful anti-inflammatory supplements you can buy from a reputable supplier in bulk. Do this daily. And fish oil. Give yourself 60 or 90 days on this regimen and see where you're at. Tweak as needed/as you decide what to drop/add to your supplement list.
I haven't been diagnosed with CFS, but I do have underactive adrenal glands (low cortisol levels all day). I started with 0.5mg of LDN bad worked my way up to about 1.1g per night. It has pretty much cured my fatigue and IBS, but has made my anxiety and sleep worse
Agmatine, memantine, magnesium glycinate, taurine, pikamilon, and if you want to replace or cut back your dose of addy then selegiline and/or moclobemide are maoi's which slow the breakdown of the neurotransmitters that addy releases. You'd have to cut back dose 10x and titrate from there, though or else it could cause a serious interaction that we would certainly not want anyone to experience
I have fibromyalgia and CFS, I take L-Theanine, bacopa, mucuna pruriens, ashwagandha, rhodiola rosea, picamilon and occasionally phenibut. Theanine, picamilon and phenibut work on the gaba receptors, mucuna works on dopamine levels, ashwagandha helps your body cope with stress a bit better. Bacopa helps me sleep and rhodiola rosea helps energy levels. I take no medications for my fibro, just these and rarely I'llsmoke a joint.